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Author Topic: Non-jerky terrain  (Read 7629 times)
allpowerful32
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« on: December 21, 2005, 03:03:42 am »

It would be nice if CS was able to, instead of switching out the terrain lods on the spot, which makes terrain look jerky when moving the camera a lot, slowly switching between the models.  First, CS would switch the low-detail model for a higher detail version that would look exactly the same.  Then it would slowly (within a second or so) switch out that model with the real high detail model. 
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dingobloo
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2005, 11:18:35 am »

Perhapse it would be better for you to increase your lod distance so that the player doesn't notice the lod-change, it's simple, already available, and is barely noticeable. There are also other settings which will allow you to hide the change of blocks to lower/higher lod levels.
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allpowerful32
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2005, 09:10:07 pm »

But when terrain is really big and detailed, it is significantly constly on current graphics cards to extend the lod distance significantly enough to make it smooth, and nearly unnoticable, supposing it is fairly mountainous.
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dingobloo
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2006, 12:14:51 pm »

The way you suggested would be MUCH more costly compared to the current terrain lod. Also there are many other options that do not effect the frame-rate as much while still allow for higher-details with no dramatic changes up-close. for example:

  <lodvalue name="block resolution">
  <lodvalue name="block split distance">
  <lodvalue name="minimum block size">
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Commander
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2006, 10:09:13 pm »

The way you suggested would be MUCH more costly compared to the current terrain lod.
This can't be true in general, as the engine from the "Battlefield" series of games implements this behaviour, and they certainly spent some thoughts on this.
I don't know how they do it exactly, but it can be noticed at certain detail settings and/or very fast camera movements, and looks like allpowerful32 described.
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dingobloo
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2006, 01:48:19 am »

The process is known as geomorphing, and doing on a large scale on the CPU is a bit costly, you can do it on the GPU with good results if you really wanted to, but otherwise it's not that desireable as it slows the framerates down on an average scene by a large amount for something that is not that noticeable. :

Here is some data from an article on geomorphing.

Mininum Scene:
   
No geomorphing: 586 fps
   
Software Geomorphing: 312 fps

an article on the subject is here if you wanted to try your hand at it:

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1936.asp
« Last Edit: January 17, 2006, 01:56:49 am by dingobloo » Logged
Thomas Egi
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2006, 04:12:44 pm »

since i had a feature request for planeshift which is actually engine-related they told me to come here. and it fits quite well in this thread so i'll just continue it.
the point with geomorphing is that you have to save more calculation time with the optimisation than you add with geomorphing.

there is a nice way to get a non-popping (or almost not noticeable), reaaaaalllyyyy huge, detailed terrains without killing your cpu.
i'm talking about a terrain optimizing code i found earlyer on the web.
160x160 km terrain , 2.5 meter horizontal resolution, simple per pixel lightning to get details as small as small stones or dirt, no noticable popping, and still >50 fps on a todays mid-lower clas pc
the best : ...full source given , a "you are free to do whatever you want with it" license
information on how it's working etc etc etc... videos and pictures .. and no joke i tested it myself it IS true. i ran it over wine on my linux box, it was simply unbeliveable. and those pictures and movies are really realtime!!

http://web.interware.hu/bandi/ranger.html

since you guys seems to rewriting the renderer you might want to check it out and maybe implement it.
this is by far the best solution for terrain optimisation i've seen on the web, it handles massive terrains,has a really efficient optimisation, is (for this result) cpu friendly, and there is no popping.
if you guys could stuff this thing into the gpu instead of cpu... i dont even dare to dream about... almost no bad points (expect with very spiky terrains.. single high spikes above the camera might be optimized to a plane and vanish but i never saw such a spike in any game so far, game-creators just have to use a normal object in such a situation)
well tell me what you think about it!

greetings
thommy e
ps: i'm no programmer so don't ask me any questions related to that.
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