Problem with polygon normals and lighting

[rvhaasen]

Situation:
my model is a room with one object and 1 static light, modelled with 3dsmax and exported with the planeshift exporter.
Viewed with walktest.

Problem
The room looks ok, the lighting on the walls are as expected. However, about 50% of the triangles of the object in the room
look very dark: the texturing is ok for (although as mentioned very dark).
The effect looks "as if the normal of the triangle that has been for the calculation of the lightmap has flipped": those triangles have the
same "darkness" as the part of the object that is not facing the light.
Another observation is that this problem occurs mainly on the side of the object that is facing the light.

When i export the model with "LIGHTING=no" in the problematic object, it looks as expected, textured without lighting,
so i would guess that the problem is not in the exported map file (?)

does anyone have an idea what could be wrong here?
Rick

[jorrit]

Could you show me a screenshot?

Also version of CS, operating system and 3D card+driver.

Greetings,

[rvhaasen]

i forgot to be more clear about that....

CS version 0.99 pseudo static release
WinXP SP2
Graphics card: Nvidia QuadroFX3000
(and i did use the -relight option)

It's a system at the office, i will not be there before Monday so i will post a screenshot then.
Rick

[rvhaasen]

i reduced the  object to 2 triangles,
The lightsource is located "behind the camera".

In the worldfile the simplified object now looks  as follows:

    <meshobj name="Female Shoe01">
      <plugin>thing</plugin>
      <priority>object</priority>
      <zuse />
      <params>
      <v x="5.34168" y="0.994367" z="-6.0481" />
      <v x="5.32998" y="1.00782" z="-6.04031" />
      <v x="5.34632" y="0.941973" z="-5.97144" />
      <v x="5.32241" y="1.03797" z="-6.0721" />

      <material>Grass2.jpg</material>
      <p name="Female Shoe01_1">       <v>3</v><v>1</v><v>0</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.838139" v="0.0944298" /><uv idx="1" u="0.746744" v="0.235147" /><uv idx="2" u="0.766824" v="0.297936" /></texmap>
      </p>
      <p name="Female Shoe01_2">       <v>1</v><v>2</v><v>0</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.746744" v="0.235147" /><uv idx="1" u="0.548769" v="0.542497" /><uv idx="2" u="0.766824" v="0.297936" /></texmap>
      </p>
      </params>
    </meshobj>

I attached 2 pictures, 1 with and the other without lighting on the "2 triangle object".
btw, the triangles are co-planar.

[jorrit]

Hmm and when do the two screenshots occur? I mean when do you get the first and when the second?

Greetings,

[rvhaasen]

I did the following:

- exported the scene with LIGHTING=yes as object property the "2 triangle object"
- executed the aplication, manouvred to the location
- then i took a screenshot

for the other screenshot i did the same, but now with "LIGHTING=no"

Rick

[jorrit]

Strange. And you did use -relight to calculate the lightmaps?

Greetings,

[rvhaasen]

yes, i relight the scene every run.
To be sure, i just removed the "chache" directory.
The run does generate the lightmaps

But is did another experiment with interesting results:
If i scaled the object (about 10x the size), now the result looks "good"
If i scaled the object (.1x the original size) the object is completely dark!

So it looks that there is a relation with the size of the triangles

Rick 

[jorrit]

Ah. How are you scaling the object exactly? You should be careful with scaling through <move> or iMovable as CS doesn't support that. Only hardmove or HardTransform is supported.

Greetings,

[rvhaasen]

I did the scaling from 3dsmax, just selected the object, scaled it by some amount
and exported it again.

[jorrit]

I did the scaling from 3dsmax, just selected the object, scaled it by some amount
and exported it again.

Hmm... Then it depends on what the 3dsmax exporter does with this. Not sure here.

Greetings,

[rvhaasen]

The only thing that is different in the exported file is the actual position of the 4 vertices:

    <meshobj name="Female Shoe01">
      <plugin>thing</plugin>
      <priority>object</priority>
      <zuse />
      <params>
      <v x="-0.0305882" y="1.01296" z="-6.1594" />
      <v x="-0.0918085" y="1.08329" z="-6.11869" />
      <v x="-0.00635411" y="0.739024" z="-5.75863" />
      <v x="-0.13135" y="1.24092" z="-6.2849" />

      <material>Grass2.jpg</material>
      <p name="Female Shoe01_1">       <v>3</v><v>1</v><v>0</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.838139" v="0.0944298" /><uv idx="1" u="0.746744" v="0.235147" /><uv idx="2" u="0.766824" v="0.297936" /></texmap>
      </p>
      <p name="Female Shoe01_2">       <v>1</v><v>2</v><v>0</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.746744" v="0.235147" /><uv idx="1" u="0.548769" v="0.542497" /><uv idx="2" u="0.766824" v="0.297936" /></texmap>
      </p>
      </params>
    </meshobj>

[jorrit]

Well I have no clue I'm afraid. I can see no reason for this failing.

Greetings,

[rvhaasen]

Jorrit, in any case, many thanks for your lighting fast respons!

If you would have some time: i reduced the world file to the bare minimum (84 lines) in order to see the effect,
It only needs 1 texture which is attached (stucco.jpg).

If you move around, you will see the 2-triangle object which has 1 good and 1 bad lighted triangle.
I also took a screenshot of how i see it with walktest

Rick

------------
<world>
 <variables>
  <variable name="lightning reset"><color red="0" green="0" blue="0"/></variable>
  <variable name="LodM" value="-0.00666667" /><variable name="LodA" value="1.33333" />
 </variables>
  <textures>
    <texture name="Stucco.jpg"> <file>Stucco.jpg</file></texture>
  </textures>
  <materials>
    <material name="Stucco.jpg"> <texture>Stucco.jpg</texture></material>
  </materials>

  <plugins>
    <plugin name="thing">crystalspace.mesh.loader.thing</plugin>
    <plugin name="thingFact">crystalspace.mesh.loader.factory.thing</plugin>
    <plugin name="meshFact">crystalspace.mesh.loader.factory.genmesh</plugin>
    <plugin name="mesh">crystalspace.mesh.loader.genmesh</plugin>
  </plugins>

  <settings><clearzbuf>yes</clearzbuf><ambient red="0.1" green="0.1" blue="0.1" /><lightmapcellsize>32</lightmapcellsize></settings>

  <sector name="main">
    <cullerp>crystalspace.culling.dynavis</cullerp>
    <meshobj name="room">
      <plugin>thing</plugin>
      <priority>object</priority>
      <zuse />
      <params>
      <v x="-0.78544" y="0.0" z="-8.83142" />
      <v x="9.21456" y="0.0" z="-8.83142" />
      <v x="-0.78544" y="0.0" z="1.16858" />
      <v x="9.21456" y="0.0" z="1.16858" />
      <v x="-0.78544" y="3.0" z="-8.83142" />
      <v x="-0.78544" y="3.0" z="1.16858" />

      <material>Stucco.jpg</material>
      <p name="room_1">       <v>2</v><v>3</v><v>0</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.00249848" v="-8.995" /><uv idx="1" u="4.9975" v="-8.995" /><uv idx="2" u="0.00249743" v="0.995003" /></texmap>
      </p>
      <p name="room_2">       <v>1</v><v>0</v><v>3</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="4.9975" v="0.995005" /><uv idx="1" u="0.00249743" v="0.995003" /><uv idx="2" u="4.9975" v="-8.995" /></texmap>
      </p>
      <p name="room_3">       <v>0</v><v>4</v><v>2</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.00249848" v="0.9995" /><uv idx="1" u="0.00249848" v="0.000499547" /><uv idx="2" u="4.9975" v="0.9995" /></texmap>
      </p>
      <p name="room_4">       <v>4</v><v>5</v><v>2</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.00249848" v="0.000499547" /><uv idx="1" u="4.9975" v="0.000499547" /><uv idx="2" u="4.9975" v="0.9995" /></texmap>
      </p>
      </params>
    </meshobj>

    <meshobj name="Female Shoe01">
      <plugin>thing</plugin>
      <priority>object</priority>
      <zuse />
      <params>
      <v x="2.86494" y="1.51019" z="-6.0481" />
      <v x="2.85323" y="1.52365" z="-6.04031" />
      <v x="2.86957" y="1.4578" z="-5.97144" />
      <v x="2.84566" y="1.55379" z="-6.0721" />

      <material>Stucco.jpg</material>
      <p name="Female Shoe01_1">       <v>3</v><v>1</v><v>0</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.838139" v="0.0944298" /><uv idx="1" u="0.746744" v="0.235147" /><uv idx="2" u="0.766824" v="0.297936" /></texmap>
      </p>
      <p name="Female Shoe01_2">       <v>1</v><v>2</v><v>0</v>
      <texmap><uv idx="0" u="0.746744" v="0.235147" /><uv idx="1" u="0.548769" v="0.542497" /><uv idx="2" u="0.766824" v="0.297936" /></texmap>
      </p>
      </params>
    </meshobj>

    <light name="Omni02main">
    <attenuation>none</attenuation>
      <center x="6.83038" y="1.9381" z="-6.99488" />
      <radius>200.0</radius>
      <color red="1.0" green="1.0" blue="1.0" />
    </light>
  </sector>
  <start name="Camera01"><sector>main</sector><position x="3.23992" y="1.75079" z="-6.54786" /></start>
   <sequences>
   </sequences>
   <triggers>
   </triggers>
</world>

[jorrit]

Yes I can reproduce it. But I still don't know what causes it. Looks like a bug in the lightmapper. We're going to have a new lightmapper in the future anyway.

Greetings,