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Author Topic: Portals and 3D Max  (Read 5045 times)
bernardofd
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« on: July 19, 2005, 03:40:39 pm »

Greetings;

Ultimally, I'm trying to understand the portal system, since the modeling in 3DMAx, passing through the PlaneShift Exporters until the CS XML map file. I was making some experiments with sectors and warping portals, and I realized, (although this won't be a great news for you all but...) that, in fact, when the camera pass through a portal, it isn't warped, but the target sector is moved and "fitted" in the portal. This can cause some problems, for me, at least, as if a portal leads to a sector that doesn't fit in the recipient object (like a room larger then the outside walls), you can see that you're in two sectors at the same time, as you can see both textures, normally in two-way portals (I can give you an map tah this occurs).

Well, what I want to know is:

1) Is there any way taht this problem can be avoided? (I've already tried some flags in the portal's properties, like STARTSINTHEMIDDLE=yes)

Other relationed things:

2) Can I make a portal opaque? A portal that I can't see though it but it would warp me anyway? Or, in the other hand, a visible and texturized plane not collideable, that can be on front of a normal portal, to give the same effect? (This all in 3D Max)

3) I realized that the portals that implement a two-way portal HAVE to be on the same size and orientation, inlcuding the sector, or it will be problems, like holes in the portal or, if the target sector have geometry ahead of the portal, that geometry invades the current sector... It is a little recurent question about the first one, but of a different approach...

Thanks in advance.
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Bernardo Figuerêdo Domingues
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jorrit
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2005, 07:51:06 pm »

Greetings;

Ultimally, I'm trying to understand the portal system, since the modeling in 3DMAx, passing through the PlaneShift Exporters until the CS XML map file. I was making some experiments with sectors and warping portals, and I realized, (although this won't be a great news for you all but...) that, in fact, when the camera pass through a portal, it isn't warped, but the target sector is moved and "fitted" in the portal. This can cause some problems, for me, at least, as if a portal leads to a sector that doesn't fit in the recipient object (like a room larger then the outside walls), you can see that you're in two sectors at the same time, as you can see both textures, normally in two-way portals (I can give you an map tah this occurs).

This isn't true. It IS the camera that is warped. The destination sector is not changed. If you go through a space warping portal then you are actually warped to another location. I made the system so I should know smiley

Quote
Well, what I want to know is:

1) Is there any way taht this problem can be avoided? (I've already tried some flags in the portal's properties, like STARTSINTHEMIDDLE=yes)

There is no problem. Portals don't change the destination sector. They change the camera.

Quote
Other relationed things:

2) Can I make a portal opaque? A portal that I can't see though it but it would warp me anyway? Or, in the other hand, a visible and texturized plane not collideable, that can be on front of a normal portal, to give the same effect? (This all in 3D Max)


This should be possible with a bit of programming.

Quote
3) I realized that the portals that implement a two-way portal HAVE to be on the same size and orientation, inlcuding the sector, or it will be problems, like holes in the portal or, if the target sector have geometry ahead of the portal, that geometry invades the current sector... It is a little recurent question about the first one, but of a different approach...

A portal in Crystal Space is ALWAYS one-way. It doesn't know about the portal going the other direction. Geometry ahead of the portal is no problem if you use the <float/> flag.

Greetings,
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bernardofd
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2005, 08:00:35 pm »

Well;

No doubt of it, jorrit! [Smiley]

But this map have a quite strange behaviour.

What happens specifically in my map is:

I made a box with a portal outside. This portal links to the sector that haves de box inside. There have another portal that leads to another sector that haves an cylindric room. Ag\fet that, I made a portal that links to the previous portal, what multiplies this sector infinitivebly...

The problem is, this circular sector seems to share the same space that the ousider sector, as when a look to the portal behind me, I see the outside wall, and, in the ground, I see the outside ground's texture!

Well, I'll leave this map with texture in a link soon, for you can see with your own eyes...
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Bernardo Figuerêdo Domingues
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bernardofd
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2005, 08:05:26 pm »

The link:
http://www2.dcc.ufmg.br/~bfd/world_bernarofd.tar.bz2

The tarball have 2.1MB and it is BZipped.

If you can look, I'll appreciate...

Regards!
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Bernardo Figuerêdo Domingues
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jorrit
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2005, 08:07:11 pm »

Well;

No doubt of it, jorrit! [Smiley]

But this map have a quite strange behaviour.

What happens specifically in my map is:

I made a box with a portal outside. This portal links to the sector that haves de box inside. There have another portal that leads to another sector that haves an cylindric room. Ag\fet that, I made a portal that links to the previous portal, what multiplies this sector infinitivebly...

The problem is, this circular sector seems to share the same space that the ousider sector, as when a look to the portal behind me, I see the outside wall, and, in the ground, I see the outside ground's texture!

Well, I'll leave this map with texture in a link soon, for you can see with your own eyes...

You must keep in mind that sectors are in fact infinite. So every sector always overlaps with all other sectors. However you can't normally see objects out of other sectors unless there is a portal in which case you can see objects from the other sector through the portal. I will try your map soon but not tonight as I am a bit busy now.

Greetings,
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bernardofd
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2005, 08:19:30 pm »

hmmm... Now I've got the point...

In fact, you can be at two sectors at the same time... It's just look through a portal that connects both... Am I right?

And I remembered another doubt...

For two sectors connect perfectly through a portal, (imagine a two-way portal, implemented by two portals, one leading to each other), these portals, and sectors, shoulbe be perfectly aligned and be of the same size?? Because I've been watching some "sector-crossing geometry" in here...

Ah, before I forget, in my question number 2 in the first post, for the moment, I would prefer make this in the walktest, just by generating the XML through 3D Max...

Regards;
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Bernardo Figuerêdo Domingues
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2005, 11:33:26 am »

hmmm... Now I've got the point...

In fact, you can be at two sectors at the same time... It's just look through a portal that connects both... Am I right?

Yes.

Quote
For two sectors connect perfectly through a portal, (imagine a two-way portal, implemented by two portals, one leading to each other), these portals, and sectors, shoulbe be perfectly aligned and be of the same size?? Because I've been watching some "sector-crossing geometry" in here...

The size of the sector doesn't matter. But it is best to have the size of the portal exactly the same.

Greetings,
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