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Author Topic: smooth bumbmapping  (Read 12226 times)
SkyFox
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« on: November 12, 2007, 03:47:27 pm »

Hello I'm using blender2crystal 0.6.0 rc2 and crystalspace 1.2. I'm trying to make a game character genmesh. I've made a model for it's face, but I can't seem to get the shading right. I've tried bumbmapping with a normal texture that is just all pixels 0x947FFE, so the shading should make the mesh look like it's all smooth. However, the mesh doesn't look smooth. It has weird points in which one vertex is shaded completely different from the connected vertices, making the face look rough like shown below.

Does anyone have an answer to my problem. Because I've heard the purpose of normalmapping is making a well shaded mesh without having to add extra vertices to make it smoother.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any help available for this. Thx!


* ns.PNG (64.51 KB, 288x224 - viewed 538 times.)
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Darek
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 05:17:51 pm »

- it's not proper color for flat normal map, find and read on CS site "Artist's best practices"
- with flat normalmap shading will be flat, nothing wrong here, to see smooth result you need "real" normalmap baked from hi-poly model
- also don't forget to enable 'diffuse' renderloop
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SkyFox
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 06:08:17 pm »

OK thanks. But what is that baking thing? You mean the dragengine. Does that work well enough then?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 08:17:15 pm by SkyFox » Logged
Darek
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2007, 12:07:47 pm »

Here is tool for this and good explanation
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/melody_home.html
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SkyFox
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 07:15:19 pm »

OK I made a normal tex with dragengine and it looked fine in the dragengine itself. But in the blender2crystal walktest I still see the old ugly shadows, as well as the new one from the normal texture. It's like the normals from the texture count less than the ones already present on the mesh.

I really would like it to look like it looks in the dragengine. Can someone just tell me the blender2crystal settings for making the low poly mesh look more like in dragengine? I'm using the shadowed renderloop. This one gives each mesh three shaders: ambient, diffuse and standard.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 09:17:16 pm by SkyFox » Logged
Darek
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 11:25:39 pm »

Nothing special in settings. Check b2cs examples at b2cs.delcorp.org
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SkyFox
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 10:55:39 am »

I don't understand what you mean with this. If I go to the examnples section, what should I see there?
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Darek
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 11:12:23 pm »

For example "Bumpmap with specular" download that file, open in blender and see how things are set insde.
Examples are best way to learn.
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SkyFox
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2007, 11:09:03 pm »

OK I realize now that the problem is not with blender2crystal but with the normal map. I even discovered that the face I was trying to create contains black spots, that aren't on the texture. I tried dragengine as well as melody for normal texture creation. Dragengine gives imperfect normal maps and the normal texture from melody is very bad. Whatever I do or try with my models. I just can't seem to create the right normal texture.
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bookeater2
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2007, 02:07:20 am »

blender will create the normal map, commands are in the render menu, look for info at blenderartists.org or other blender sites.
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SkyFox
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2007, 04:19:30 pm »

And what .html page do you recommend me to read?

Blender creates normal maps in camera space, while CS needs tangetial space(if I'm correct). These normal maps from blender are useless for CS.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 08:25:06 pm by SkyFox » Logged
bookeater2
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2007, 04:26:12 pm »

That I don't know exactly
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Darek
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2007, 09:42:49 pm »

And what .html page do you recommend me to read?

Blender creates normal maps in camera space, while I need tangetial space. These normal maps from blender are useless for CS.
Thats correct. I know that work is in progress and I hope we can expect something useful soon. But atm you need Melody, ORB, etc.
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SkyFox
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2008, 08:34:27 pm »

It looks like a better normal map generator is really needed.

DENormGen doesn't even generate a good normal texture for a simple low-poly sphere, when using a high-poly sphere(my head hurts when thinking about making a face this way). Melody has no explanation on how to use it with blender, while it does have too many buttons. And I can't even find that ORB program anywhere on the internet.

You start wondering how they created those good normal maps in those games you see on the sale everywhere. I guess they did that with normal mapping. You know, when the normal tex replaces the surface normal, rather than adding on to it.

Blender2crystal doesn't seem to have normalmap shader available. There are just a lot of bumbmap variants. If I only understood  CS-shaders a little better, I'd try to make a normal map shader myself.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 07:48:09 pm by SkyFox » Logged
bookeater2
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2008, 09:36:54 pm »

I tested blender's internal normal mapping, the new version, and it worked correctly, but I ran into problems using it in crystal space. http://www.graphicall.org/builds/index.php has the version I am talking about but of course use it at your own risk, it's not an official release.
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